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	<title>Comments on: Dialog with a Non-Marching Cynic</title>
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	<description>News and commentary to show the insanity and waste of war</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: albe</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-1673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[albe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2011 23:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-1673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While  I view  the happenings,war, I see the futile efforts of  marchers, laughed at  by  the population of  cynics and  armchair warriors.
    By  not  paying  taxes and  not attending  to their attention,to their  egos,
Not attending the vaunted Congress. That  would  make  the  press and  the  world  note ,that  the  so called  democracy doesn&#039;t  want  the leaders.
    War  mongers  all , shareholders  in  Martin  marietta, lougheed martin or  whatever it&#039;s  called. War  transfers  huge  tax monies  to the shareholders and  stakeholders  in the ordance  industries.Too bad, the  votes  gained  by  the  workers will keep the party  in  power.
    Stop working  and  paying  taxes. This is probably  preaching  to the  choir, since the  tax  system now  relies on  point of  sale tax  collection plus  less on  income. Blood  money  is  exactly  what  tax money  is.
     Barter  may  be the coming thing. And  possibly  a sector  of  the  population will not  be attracted to  participate  int he consumer  frenzy built  up over  the  decades.
  Bombs drop , i can  hear  the  Tomahawk missile  assemblers cheer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While  I view  the happenings,war, I see the futile efforts of  marchers, laughed at  by  the population of  cynics and  armchair warriors.<br />
    By  not  paying  taxes and  not attending  to their attention,to their  egos,<br />
Not attending the vaunted Congress. That  would  make  the  press and  the  world  note ,that  the  so called  democracy doesn&#8217;t  want  the leaders.<br />
    War  mongers  all , shareholders  in  Martin  marietta, lougheed martin or  whatever it&#8217;s  called. War  transfers  huge  tax monies  to the shareholders and  stakeholders  in the ordance  industries.Too bad, the  votes  gained  by  the  workers will keep the party  in  power.<br />
    Stop working  and  paying  taxes. This is probably  preaching  to the  choir, since the  tax  system now  relies on  point of  sale tax  collection plus  less on  income. Blood  money  is  exactly  what  tax money  is.<br />
     Barter  may  be the coming thing. And  possibly  a sector  of  the  population will not  be attracted to  participate  int he consumer  frenzy built  up over  the  decades.<br />
  Bombs drop , i can  hear  the  Tomahawk missile  assemblers cheer.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: peacepundit</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[peacepundit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-53</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is another essay on low turnout at anti-war demonstrations:
[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/66433&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;View Essay&lt;/a&gt;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another essay on low turnout at anti-war demonstrations:<br />
[<a href="http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/66433" rel="nofollow">View Essay</a>]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sandi</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-51</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As with everything else, we have to budget our time to spend it for the maximum result. I write letters to Sen. Feinstein, but I admit it gets harder &amp; harder, knowing I will get another &#039;I don&#039;t care what you think&#039; message in return. Still, if we shut up, she definitely will not hear.

I&#039;ve joined the Sunnyvale Voices for Peace for a couple of 3rd Friday rallies. We don&#039;t get press coverage, so I don&#039;t know if we are effective.  But it helps me feel some self-respect, that I stood up for something in public. I hope it also gives heart to the others. 

I try to remind myself &quot;Everything matters! We do not always know what effect we have had.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As with everything else, we have to budget our time to spend it for the maximum result. I write letters to Sen. Feinstein, but I admit it gets harder &amp; harder, knowing I will get another &#8216;I don&#8217;t care what you think&#8217; message in return. Still, if we shut up, she definitely will not hear.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve joined the Sunnyvale Voices for Peace for a couple of 3rd Friday rallies. We don&#8217;t get press coverage, so I don&#8217;t know if we are effective.  But it helps me feel some self-respect, that I stood up for something in public. I hope it also gives heart to the others. </p>
<p>I try to remind myself &#8220;Everything matters! We do not always know what effect we have had.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joanne Groves</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joanne Groves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 04:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-50</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is one fundamental and critical difference between the Iraq war and the Vietnam war.  The Vietnam war had the draft.  This gave a much larger population with a very personal reason as well as a moral one for opposing the war.  In addition life wasn&#039;t as competitive in the Vietnam era as it is today.  Folks could hope for a lifetime middle class job with a pension whether blue collar at  some place like Bethlehem Steel or white collar at E. I. Dupont, etc.  College was more affordable to a great segment of the population.  And they graduated debt free in much greater numbers.  Folks with a high draft lottery number could afford to take a year or so off to do drugs, go into the Peace Corps, be a ski or surfing bum, attend an Ashram in India, work for political and environmental causes, travel the world, etc.
	Nowadays at college, students put in as much time as possible to get as good grades as possible so as to have a good chance at one of those few jobs in their field.  Students want to get through as fast as possible to keep the loan amounts down.  Students may have a job on the side to keep the loan amount to a minimum.  Upon graduation, there is pressure to get a job as soon as possible because loan repayments start immediately.  At work one works as hard and as long as possible so when downsizing time comes, you might be one of the people who gets to stay.  And in time you may have a kid or 2 on top of all this.
	Of course, in the Vietnam era there was a segment of the population living in survival mode with very few options.  Well, today, in addition to these people, a lot of people like me ( educated professionals ) are in the same position.  How much time to they have to write to their Congress people or participate in demonstrations.  If their brother disappears in the night, they will be doing what their counterparts in Iraq do,  doing everything in their power to get their children and their brother&#039;s wife and children out of the country.
	I have been wondering for years if we are in a period like that one before Hitler really came into his own.  I also feel that when the Roman Empire fell, there were people who saw what was happening, but didn&#039;t see how they could stop it.
	I was talking with my sister Saturday.  I asked her what she thought were our chances of bombing Iran.  She had the same thought I do.  Bush will do it after the Nov 2008 elections.  It seems obvious the Republicans aren&#039;t going to do too well in these elections.  They would do even worse if Bush bombs Iran before them.  Bombing Iran after them will create an even bigger military mess than today and porbably raise the price of a barrel of oil above and beyond $100 initiating an economic crisis.  The new president and Congress will be occupied cleaning things up to the detriment of what he/she and the Congress might prefer to spend their time on.  And what they may prefer to spend their time on is not what the Bush&#039;s buddies favor.  Bush and his buddies will have the pleasure of saying, &quot;See, this is what you get when you elect Democrats, a bigger war and a Depression.&quot;.
	Finnally let me use our Alaska representative, Don Young, as an example.  I have listened to folks try to explain positions different from his to him on talk radio here in Fairbanks.  He doesn&#039;t listen to them, he ridicules them, he talks over them; it&#039;s disgusting.  You aren&#039;t going to reach someone like that by writing letters, doing demonstrations, e-mails, phone calls.  The only thing that is going to get through to him is voting him out of office.  And I am sure that there are others like him in Congress.
       I have been trying to get Don Young out of office for 30+ years.  Maybe this year it will happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one fundamental and critical difference between the Iraq war and the Vietnam war.  The Vietnam war had the draft.  This gave a much larger population with a very personal reason as well as a moral one for opposing the war.  In addition life wasn&#8217;t as competitive in the Vietnam era as it is today.  Folks could hope for a lifetime middle class job with a pension whether blue collar at  some place like Bethlehem Steel or white collar at E. I. Dupont, etc.  College was more affordable to a great segment of the population.  And they graduated debt free in much greater numbers.  Folks with a high draft lottery number could afford to take a year or so off to do drugs, go into the Peace Corps, be a ski or surfing bum, attend an Ashram in India, work for political and environmental causes, travel the world, etc.<br />
	Nowadays at college, students put in as much time as possible to get as good grades as possible so as to have a good chance at one of those few jobs in their field.  Students want to get through as fast as possible to keep the loan amounts down.  Students may have a job on the side to keep the loan amount to a minimum.  Upon graduation, there is pressure to get a job as soon as possible because loan repayments start immediately.  At work one works as hard and as long as possible so when downsizing time comes, you might be one of the people who gets to stay.  And in time you may have a kid or 2 on top of all this.<br />
	Of course, in the Vietnam era there was a segment of the population living in survival mode with very few options.  Well, today, in addition to these people, a lot of people like me ( educated professionals ) are in the same position.  How much time to they have to write to their Congress people or participate in demonstrations.  If their brother disappears in the night, they will be doing what their counterparts in Iraq do,  doing everything in their power to get their children and their brother&#8217;s wife and children out of the country.<br />
	I have been wondering for years if we are in a period like that one before Hitler really came into his own.  I also feel that when the Roman Empire fell, there were people who saw what was happening, but didn&#8217;t see how they could stop it.<br />
	I was talking with my sister Saturday.  I asked her what she thought were our chances of bombing Iran.  She had the same thought I do.  Bush will do it after the Nov 2008 elections.  It seems obvious the Republicans aren&#8217;t going to do too well in these elections.  They would do even worse if Bush bombs Iran before them.  Bombing Iran after them will create an even bigger military mess than today and porbably raise the price of a barrel of oil above and beyond $100 initiating an economic crisis.  The new president and Congress will be occupied cleaning things up to the detriment of what he/she and the Congress might prefer to spend their time on.  And what they may prefer to spend their time on is not what the Bush&#8217;s buddies favor.  Bush and his buddies will have the pleasure of saying, &#8220;See, this is what you get when you elect Democrats, a bigger war and a Depression.&#8221;.<br />
	Finnally let me use our Alaska representative, Don Young, as an example.  I have listened to folks try to explain positions different from his to him on talk radio here in Fairbanks.  He doesn&#8217;t listen to them, he ridicules them, he talks over them; it&#8217;s disgusting.  You aren&#8217;t going to reach someone like that by writing letters, doing demonstrations, e-mails, phone calls.  The only thing that is going to get through to him is voting him out of office.  And I am sure that there are others like him in Congress.<br />
       I have been trying to get Don Young out of office for 30+ years.  Maybe this year it will happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jochen Gruber</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jochen Gruber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-49</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m German, was born in 1941 in Szczecin (now a Polish city). So I lived through WWII as a child. In 1944 my family fled westward, ultimately to a city between Cologne and Bonn on the Rhine River, rightly fearing reprisal from the Russians because of the immense human rights violations we had inflicted on them. 

In my view, PeacePundit, the biggest obstacle to getting involved politically in the Nazi period was (and still is) that we usually do not have large enough networks connecting people who wish to act responsibly. Advice and dissent that aim at checks and balances have been  -in my view- largely missing throughout all social groups (work place, partys, friendships, families). So during Nazi times regime critics were disorganized, and the last resistance had to rely on the inept Graf von Stauffenberg for planting a bomb on Hitler. Compare this with your Kennedy murder, or even the suicide bombers. No one even in Hitler&#039;s immediate vicinity had the stamina to voice his alarm at the misjudgements Hitler fell into. Even Hitler&#039;s closest friend, Albert Speer, saw no way to free Hitler from his neurotic landscapes of reality and joined plans to kill him with poisonous gas through the air conditioning system.

Arthur Solmssen&#039;s novels have as (hidden) subject our (German) inability to join existing networks (unless they are really big and fun), as opposed to the American culture that tries out ways to overcome the threshold (breaking point - I love your list of possible ones). And, most explicitly in &quot;Awakenings&quot;, Oliver Sacks comes up with a psychiatric interpretation of this peculiar kind of inactivity (his term is &quot;Standstill&quot; of the mind), which is formulated in a way to help us get out of this trap.
 

In Oliver Sacks&#039;s view inactivity in situations that urgently call for activity is a general deficiency of the human mind (due to either a &quot;too much of activity&quot; which we have learnt to suppress or too little activity), most obvious in men and women with Parkinson&#039;s disease:
 see footnote 14 

Common to Parkinsonian inactivity is &quot;not feeling at home in this world&quot;. 


Literature, music, sports, personal contact with other people can efficiently counteract this, according to Sacks. (Judging from my own experience I agree with PeacePundit: demos help forming networks and opinions among the participants, liberating them from inactivity). 

Here is an extended quote from Oliver Sacks&#039;s Awakenings, Chapter III. Parkinsonian Space and Time, 


&quot;We have seen, again and again, that patients&#039; own kinetic melodies can be given back to them, albeit briefly, by the use of an appropriate flow of music.
...
 The art of &#039;handling&#039; Parkinsonian patients, learned by sensitive nurses and friends - assisting them by the merest intimation or touch, or by a wordless, touchless moving-together, in an intuitive kinetic sympathy of attunement - this is a genuine art, which can be exercised by a man or a horse or a dog, but which can never be simulated by any mechanical feedback; for it is only an ever-changing, melodic, and living play of forces which can recall living beings into their own living being.
Such a subtle, ever-changing play of forces may also be achieved through the use of certain &#039;natural&#039; devices, which intermediate, so to speak, between afflicted patients and the forces of Nature. Thus while severely affected Parkinsonians are particularly dangerous at the controls of motorcars and motorboats 

... or in politics, I (Jochen Gruber) would like to add ... 

(which tend to amplify all their pathological tendencies), they may be able to handle a sailing boat with ease and skill, with an intuitive accuracy and &#039;feel&#039;. Here, in effect, man-boat-wind-wave come together in a natural, dynamic union or unison; the man feels at one, at home, with the forces of Nature; his own natural melody is evoked by, attuned to, the harmony of Nature; he ceases to be a patient - passive and pulsive - and is transformed to an agent - active and free.
 in your browser window search for &quot;kinetic melody&quot;

Sacks notices that his patients are extremely happy when they are liberated from their inactivity. For many of his Mount Carmel post-encephalitic patients L-Dopa opened the door into an active, happy life (most vividly shown in Penny Marshall&#039;s film &quot;Awakenings&quot; with Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams), but after an initial phase of exaltation most of them were pulled back into their numbness in spite of taking the drug. The desire to live an full life seemed too feable. Exceptions were people who got involved in activities that were self-perpetuating, e.g. work in a job they loved (or, I would add, &quot;active work on political or social issues&quot;). 

Contrary to &quot;the cynic&quot;, I experience no frustration during such work as long as I can identify with it. So, at times I need to come up with a new idea or direction of my work and unite that with the work of the group I am in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m German, was born in 1941 in Szczecin (now a Polish city). So I lived through WWII as a child. In 1944 my family fled westward, ultimately to a city between Cologne and Bonn on the Rhine River, rightly fearing reprisal from the Russians because of the immense human rights violations we had inflicted on them. </p>
<p>In my view, PeacePundit, the biggest obstacle to getting involved politically in the Nazi period was (and still is) that we usually do not have large enough networks connecting people who wish to act responsibly. Advice and dissent that aim at checks and balances have been  -in my view- largely missing throughout all social groups (work place, partys, friendships, families). So during Nazi times regime critics were disorganized, and the last resistance had to rely on the inept Graf von Stauffenberg for planting a bomb on Hitler. Compare this with your Kennedy murder, or even the suicide bombers. No one even in Hitler&#8217;s immediate vicinity had the stamina to voice his alarm at the misjudgements Hitler fell into. Even Hitler&#8217;s closest friend, Albert Speer, saw no way to free Hitler from his neurotic landscapes of reality and joined plans to kill him with poisonous gas through the air conditioning system.</p>
<p>Arthur Solmssen&#8217;s novels have as (hidden) subject our (German) inability to join existing networks (unless they are really big and fun), as opposed to the American culture that tries out ways to overcome the threshold (breaking point &#8211; I love your list of possible ones). And, most explicitly in &#8220;Awakenings&#8221;, Oliver Sacks comes up with a psychiatric interpretation of this peculiar kind of inactivity (his term is &#8220;Standstill&#8221; of the mind), which is formulated in a way to help us get out of this trap.</p>
<p>In Oliver Sacks&#8217;s view inactivity in situations that urgently call for activity is a general deficiency of the human mind (due to either a &#8220;too much of activity&#8221; which we have learnt to suppress or too little activity), most obvious in men and women with Parkinson&#8217;s disease:<br />
 see footnote 14 </p>
<p>Common to Parkinsonian inactivity is &#8220;not feeling at home in this world&#8221;. </p>
<p>Literature, music, sports, personal contact with other people can efficiently counteract this, according to Sacks. (Judging from my own experience I agree with PeacePundit: demos help forming networks and opinions among the participants, liberating them from inactivity). </p>
<p>Here is an extended quote from Oliver Sacks&#8217;s Awakenings, Chapter III. Parkinsonian Space and Time, </p>
<p>&#8220;We have seen, again and again, that patients&#8217; own kinetic melodies can be given back to them, albeit briefly, by the use of an appropriate flow of music.<br />
&#8230;<br />
 The art of &#8216;handling&#8217; Parkinsonian patients, learned by sensitive nurses and friends &#8211; assisting them by the merest intimation or touch, or by a wordless, touchless moving-together, in an intuitive kinetic sympathy of attunement &#8211; this is a genuine art, which can be exercised by a man or a horse or a dog, but which can never be simulated by any mechanical feedback; for it is only an ever-changing, melodic, and living play of forces which can recall living beings into their own living being.<br />
Such a subtle, ever-changing play of forces may also be achieved through the use of certain &#8216;natural&#8217; devices, which intermediate, so to speak, between afflicted patients and the forces of Nature. Thus while severely affected Parkinsonians are particularly dangerous at the controls of motorcars and motorboats </p>
<p>&#8230; or in politics, I (Jochen Gruber) would like to add &#8230; </p>
<p>(which tend to amplify all their pathological tendencies), they may be able to handle a sailing boat with ease and skill, with an intuitive accuracy and &#8216;feel&#8217;. Here, in effect, man-boat-wind-wave come together in a natural, dynamic union or unison; the man feels at one, at home, with the forces of Nature; his own natural melody is evoked by, attuned to, the harmony of Nature; he ceases to be a patient &#8211; passive and pulsive &#8211; and is transformed to an agent &#8211; active and free.<br />
 in your browser window search for &#8220;kinetic melody&#8221;</p>
<p>Sacks notices that his patients are extremely happy when they are liberated from their inactivity. For many of his Mount Carmel post-encephalitic patients L-Dopa opened the door into an active, happy life (most vividly shown in Penny Marshall&#8217;s film &#8220;Awakenings&#8221; with Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams), but after an initial phase of exaltation most of them were pulled back into their numbness in spite of taking the drug. The desire to live an full life seemed too feable. Exceptions were people who got involved in activities that were self-perpetuating, e.g. work in a job they loved (or, I would add, &#8220;active work on political or social issues&#8221;). </p>
<p>Contrary to &#8220;the cynic&#8221;, I experience no frustration during such work as long as I can identify with it. So, at times I need to come up with a new idea or direction of my work and unite that with the work of the group I am in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-48</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keeping silent about this war implies you agree with the administration&#039;s policies. Peace marches are one of many ways to voice dissent. None of these individually will end the war, but put all together they may help. 

In any case, I refuse to be disempowered by this administration. I continue to believe that my opinion matters, if not to George Bush, then certainly to the 70% of the rest of the country that agrees with me. Besides I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning. That would be difficult to do if I did not stand up for my beliefs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keeping silent about this war implies you agree with the administration&#8217;s policies. Peace marches are one of many ways to voice dissent. None of these individually will end the war, but put all together they may help. </p>
<p>In any case, I refuse to be disempowered by this administration. I continue to believe that my opinion matters, if not to George Bush, then certainly to the 70% of the rest of the country that agrees with me. Besides I have to look at myself in the mirror every morning. That would be difficult to do if I did not stand up for my beliefs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Duff Axsom</title>
		<link>http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Duff Axsom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peacepundit.com/2007/10/31/dialog-with-a-non-marching-cynic/#comment-47</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many of us in the anti-war movement in the 60&#039;s spent years working to end the war....it was a very long process. In the earlier years, in San Francisco, huge numbers turned out for the Mobilization against the War and other peace marches. The goal at the point was to  arouse the public and make it clear the horrors of the Viet Nam war. That has happened already, at some levels in the U.S. today. So, that goal, if we can believe the polling has been reached

But, later, it took determined and sustained effort for keeping the pressure on to get the political will to stop the war. Many, many of the demonstrations and protests in the early 70&#039;s were a few hundred, not hundreds of thousands. I don&#039;t think it is the numbers of demonstrators, but the directed focus of the work is what we are called on today. And, public protest is a valuable tool to keep the elected pols aware that their constituencies are paying attention. A few thousand votes can make or break an election....and protesters are voters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of us in the anti-war movement in the 60&#8242;s spent years working to end the war&#8230;.it was a very long process. In the earlier years, in San Francisco, huge numbers turned out for the Mobilization against the War and other peace marches. The goal at the point was to  arouse the public and make it clear the horrors of the Viet Nam war. That has happened already, at some levels in the U.S. today. So, that goal, if we can believe the polling has been reached</p>
<p>But, later, it took determined and sustained effort for keeping the pressure on to get the political will to stop the war. Many, many of the demonstrations and protests in the early 70&#8242;s were a few hundred, not hundreds of thousands. I don&#8217;t think it is the numbers of demonstrators, but the directed focus of the work is what we are called on today. And, public protest is a valuable tool to keep the elected pols aware that their constituencies are paying attention. A few thousand votes can make or break an election&#8230;.and protesters are voters.</p>
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